Curse

semantic · Dec 05, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsparks

i didn't want to read through 6 pages of stuff, but I must be in that lonely 10% of people because I have never used that build or any variance of it or used it on a hero.

I'm with you. My Paragon is and pretty much always has been all-out offense. I plead to using TNtF, but I had Vanquisher and Guardian of Elona before that skill released, so I get a Presidential Pardon on that one.

Know what makes me feel dirty? Playing Mesmer. Nothing makes GW E-Z Mode like playing as a Mesmer does. Merely having a Mesmer in your group should automatically be classed as cheating.

I'm being serious.

Toxage · Dec 05, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by semantic

I'm with you. My Paragon is and pretty much always has been all-out offense. I plead to using TNtF, but I had Vanquisher and Guardian of Elona before that skill released, so I get a Presidential Pardon on that one.

Know what makes me feel dirty? Playing Mesmer. Nothing makes GW E-Z Mode like playing as a Mesmer does. Merely having a Mesmer in your group should automatically be classed as cheating.

I'm being serious.

Omg your right... I mean mesmers can also provide 87% damage reduction to the whole party with good dps..... o wait my bad only paragons can do that..

super strokey · Dec 05, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Heros can't use PvE only skills for the like the tenth time in this thread.... Do people even bother to read threads anymore? Jeez....

I wish heroes could use PvE skills that would allow it to be a little bit more balanced. It it VERY UNFAIR and IMBALANCED that a only a human paragon can use can use the bar...If your going to imbalanced at least allow everyone to use it.

Did i say i was only looking for a hero build no? So maybe make sure you know what some one wants first. I made a paragon and want to try this, im also looking for a build to start a hero build form for one. Jeez guess people dont always read threads anymore.

edit
Ive decided I was too harsh there and made too many assumptions my self, sorry dude was just pissed as i just died lol

SleepyLuxon · Dec 05, 2007, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxage

Heros can't use PvE only skills for the like the tenth time in this thread.... Do people even bother to read threads anymore? Jeez....

I wish heroes could use PvE skills that would allow it to be a little bit more balanced. It it VERY UNFAIR and IMBALANCED that a only a human paragon can use can use the bar...If your going to imbalanced at least allow everyone to use it.

Wow fell outta my chair laughing but seriously though whats gonna make a paragon stand out in PvE if that build is taken away your reasons are so selfish for skill balance i mean seriously its not like there is a Paragon taking your spot in a pug and if you are pugging then i feel sorry for you. Basically your saying "Omg Paragon doing Damage Reduction plz nerf even though its PvE."

Look you may find it a boring c-space class but im most certain that you have no evidence to back that up from only playing 1 build.

Issue13 · Dec 05, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Id rather play WoW than make a paragon. They are awful. terrible skills and terrible armour and faces.

/DELETE

SleepyLuxon · Dec 05, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issue13

Id rather play WoW than make a paragon. They are awful. terrible skills and terrible armour and faces.

/DELETE

Why do you think this thread was made idiot. Go to WoW cause you know nothing bout Paragons /Delete you.

Issue13 · Dec 05, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyLuxon

Why do you think this thread was made idiot. Go to WoW cause you know nothing bout Paragons /Delete you.

Are you actually messing?
i know why this thread was made. so i staed that id rather play a completly different game than make a paragon.
yeh i know i know nothing about paragons because i just dont want to make one from the state of there faces and armour.

/Recycle Me Back

Dronte · Dec 05, 2007, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issue13

Are you actually messing?
i know why this thread was made. so i staed that id rather play a completly different game than make a paragon.
yeh i know i know nothing about paragons because i just dont want to make one from the state of there faces and armour.

/Recycle Me Back

You know nothing about paragons, but you stated they have terrible skills which is terribly false. Paragons are so leet in pve and pvp as well, with really nice skills. Also, they have a few nice armor

SleepyLuxon · Dec 05, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issue13

Are you actually messing?
i know why this thread was made. so i staed that id rather play a completly different game than make a paragon.
yeh i know i know nothing about paragons because i just dont want to make one from the state of there faces and armour.

/Recycle Me Back

Yeah im only messing but just don't try to pass judgment on a class you don't know about don't judge a book by it's cover.

makosi · Dec 05, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Because of "There's Nothing To Fear!" and "Watch Yourself!" I was able to get my Paragon from Kamadan to Abaddon with Frenzy on my bar all the way and he remains a Survivor. I didn't even play it that safe.

I just hate maintaing Agressive Refrain.

Theo Godscythe · Dec 05, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

PvE only Skills are meant to be as strong as Elites (that's why they are PVE only.)

Now leave the poor Paragons alone and stop whining, it's not like you have to put up with this *bleep* in PvP.

If Anet jumped every time you say toad than everything WOULD BE "broken"

P.S. Angels rock stop trying to mess them up, because they don’t wear pants, and have a Michel Jackson dance.

Also I going to run away and leave you guys to "Save Yourselves!" from this flame war.

mr_groovy · Dec 05, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

I had fun getting Legendary Survivor (3) on my paragon, using tntf + wy. The only proplem like dervishes, rits, & sins. There 's less elite's to cap, not much variations in the builds, and less armor skins in other campaigns.

Oh well vabbi suits her fine >.>

Joe Hostile · Dec 05, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Just play a more challenging class if it seems too easy. After playing GW for over 3 years, I decided to make and play a Monk and now its a completely different game for me.

Div · Dec 05, 2007, 01:44 PM // 13:44

If it gets too boring, switch classes. Spamming barrage or mind blast all day gets pretty boring too.

Yichi · Dec 05, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Spamming mind blast all day gets pretty boring too.

It does?

upier · Dec 05, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Could be sarcasm, but I see no tags...

Sadly ... it's not ...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=167

/shivers

TheHaxor · Dec 05, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

My paragon was a chick named I Am A Screamer.

It made me feel dirty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

If it gets too boring, switch classes. Spamming barrage or mind blast all day gets pretty boring too.

It is less boring if you shout "PEW PEW" over vent whenever you use the skill, followed by "BOOM HEADSHOT" whenever you kill something.

Ninian_Grace · Dec 05, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

uuuum. I can't see the point of this thread...

you are whining because a class is doing their job? PARAGONS CONSIST IN DAMAGE REDUCTION AND PARTY SUPPORTING.

its like if I was saying: OMG LIEK ELE ARE SO OVERPOWERED YO THEY ARE TEH USE SEARING FLAMES AND OWN ME!

or its like crying about mesmers because they use massive life degen.

or then again crying about MM necros saying they shouldn't cast minions so much...

if you can find me a point in your thread/post, please let me know, untill now I only feel like i lost 5 minutes reading your post posting mine.

LOL

and no I don't feel dirty for using my Paragon the right way.

the_jos · Dec 05, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Para with TNtF/SY imba?
I can list several other PvE only skills, even excluding Ursan, that are overpowered when used in the right build.
Consumables, same problem.

However, I think there was a reason for their introduction.

The problems were already present in Prophecies.
Teams were not accepting every professions (zomg a mesmer, fail).
Farming teams were always restrictive (warrior in ToPK, noob).
Then we got Factions with two new professions (zomg, sin wannabe tank, fail).
And two new elite areas (PUG teams with restrictive builds and professions).
And yes, we got NF, with the much nerfed para and dervish. And heroes ofc.
And some area called DoA were most PUG and guild builds would be Monk, Ele, Necro, Tank.
Then we got Hard Mode, which should not be very hard for the typical GWG reader, but has a lot of problems for others that don't know about forums or wiki.
I know several of those players and while they are enjoying the game, they even struggle on NM.

I don't care about PvE balance anymore (though I hope things will be better in GW2).
According to many, PUGs died a long time ago.
I do play with them now and then, but there is still a 50% fail chance.
With Ursanway and a decent leader this is reduced to 25%.
So from PUG perspective, there is no need to improve balance.

Then we have the problem of titles.
The introduction of titles presented a new problem.
X things to do in Y time.
Resulting in a lot of people playing their own schedule and joining only what they like. And only on the profession they want that title on.
And they want to do it fast with the least chance to fail, because the KoBD track requires a lot of maxed titles (=grind).
The combination of available professions, playing time and the least chance to fail results in the most optimal team being 2 or 3 human and the rest heroes. Titles + heroes changed GW to a solo game, imo.
Or one could go Ursanway, that works best with more humans.

With consumables + PvE skills, even the sub-optimal team builds have a reasonable chance of success.
Is that bad?
Yes, it is very bad. But it's not killing PvE.
It makes it worth again to team up with other humans, since they also have access to those overpowered skills. And heroes don't.
We are going to see some discrimination again, like "no Ursan, no access", but that's similar to "no B/P, no access".
But, unlike B/P, Ursan can be played with every profession. Welcome Sin and Mesmer.

Should some PvE skills be changed?
As long as PvE is not changed to something where a mesmer and a sin could add more value to a team than an additional nuker/warrior in at least 25% of the situations, I would say no.
That's where PvE is imbalanced in the first place.
I do see that SY could be changed so paragons would be on par with warriors on this one.
It's the total FA, FGJ, AR, SY combo that makes it overpowered. Could perhaps be solved by changing FGJ to a attribute linked skill (like +4 strength).

Ninian_Grace · Dec 05, 2007, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

Para with TNtF/SY imba?
I can list several other PvE only skills, even excluding Ursan, that are overpowered when used in the right build.
Consumables, same problem.

However, I think there was a reason for their introduction.

The problems were already present in Prophecies.
Teams were not accepting every professions (zomg a mesmer, fail).
Farming teams were always restrictive (warrior in ToPK, noob).
Then we got Factions with two new professions (zomg, sin wannabe tank, fail).
And two new elite areas (PUG teams with restrictive builds and professions).
And yes, we got NF, with the much nerfed para and dervish. And heroes ofc.
And some area called DoA were most PUG and guild builds would be Monk, Ele, Necro, Tank.
Then we got Hard Mode, which should not be very hard for the typical GWG reader, but has a lot of problems for others that don't know about forums or wiki.
I know several of those players and while they are enjoying the game, they even struggle on NM.

I don't care about PvE balance anymore (though I hope things will be better in GW2).
According to many, PUGs died a long time ago.
I do play with them now and then, but there is still a 50% fail chance.
With Ursanway and a decent leader this is reduced to 25%.
So from PUG perspective, there is no need to improve balance.

Then we have the problem of titles.
The introduction of titles presented a new problem.
X things to do in Y time.
Resulting in a lot of people playing their own schedule and joining only what they like. And only on the profession they want that title on.
And they want to do it fast with the least chance to fail, because the KoBD track requires a lot of maxed titles (=grind).
The combination of available professions, playing time and the least chance to fail results in the most optimal team being 2 or 3 human and the rest heroes. Titles + heroes changed GW to a solo game, imo.
Or one could go Ursanway, that works best with more humans.

With consumables + PvE skills, even the sub-optimal team builds have a reasonable chance of success.
Is that bad?
Yes, it is very bad. But it's not killing PvE.
It makes it worth again to team up with other humans, since they also have access to those overpowered skills. And heroes don't.
We are going to see some discrimination again, like "no Ursan, no access", but that's similar to "no B/P, no access".
But, unlike B/P, Ursan can be played with every profession. Welcome Sin and Mesmer.

Should some PvE skills be changed?
As long as PvE is not changed to something where a mesmer and a sin could add more value to a team than an additional nuker/warrior in at least 25% of the situations, I would say no.
That's where PvE is imbalanced in the first place.
I do see that SY could be changed so paragons would be on par with warriors on this one.
It's the total FA, FGJ, AR, SY combo that makes it overpowered. Could perhaps be solved by changing FGJ to a attribute linked skill (like +4 strength).

Amen.

Just loved reading this. Props to you, my friend.